bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Raoul Comninos
Emacs does not correctly display Hebrew text with vowels. The vowels
appear next to the consonants rather than beneath them. When they are
beneath the consonants they are not in the correct position. There are a
few other anomalies too, such as, the dagesh appears misplaced followed
by a circle. If I export my documents with Hebrew text in org mode to html
or odf then the Hebrew IS displayed correctly. I have tried changing the
font, installing "unicode-fonts" and a host of other solutions. I have
tried using different versions of Emacs. I use utf-8 as my default
encoding system. If I open the same text document in LibreOffice, again,
the text is displayed correctly. If I strip the Hebrew text of vowels
then the consonants appear correctly in Emacs. If I use
auto-composition-mode it makes no difference. The Hebrew text remains
incorrectly displayed

In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.11)
of 2017-09-15, modified by Debian built on trouble
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11902000
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)

Configured using:
'configure --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr
--sharedstatedir=/var/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib
--localstatedir=/var/lib --infodir=/usr/share/info
--mandir=/usr/share/man --with-pop=yes
--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs25:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/25.1/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/25.1/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp

--with-sound=alsa --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr
--sharedstatedir=/var/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib
--localstatedir=/var/lib --infodir=/usr/share/info
--mandir=/usr/share/man --with-pop=yes
--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs25:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/25.1/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/25.1/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp

--with-sound=alsa --with-x=yes --with-x-toolkit=gtk3
--with-toolkit-scroll-bars 'CFLAGS=-g -O2
-fdebug-prefix-map=/build/emacs25-wN2qS3/emacs25-25.1+1=.
-fstack-protector-strong
-Wformat -Werror=format-security -Wall' 'CPPFLAGS=-Wdate-time
-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2' LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,relro'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND GPM DBUS GCONF GSETTINGS
NOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11

Important settings:
value of $LANG: en_ZA.UTF-8
locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Org

Minor modes in effect:
flyspell-mode: t
desktop-save-mode: t
pdf-occur-global-minor-mode: t
override-global-mode: t
dired-omit-mode: t
savehist-mode: t
global-undo-tree-mode: t
undo-tree-mode: t
winner-mode: t
recentf-mode: t
global-eldoc-mode: t
electric-indent-mode: t
mouse-wheel-mode: t
file-name-shadow-mode: t
global-font-lock-mode: t
font-lock-mode: t
blink-cursor-mode: t
auto-composition-mode: t
auto-encryption-mode: t
auto-compression-mode: t
column-number-mode: t
line-number-mode: t
global-visual-line-mode: t
visual-line-mode: t
transient-mark-mode: t
abbrev-mode: t

Recent messages:
Loading /var/cache/dictionaries-common/emacsen-ispell-dicts.el
(source)...done
Loading /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50dictionaries-common.el (source)...done
Loading /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50emacs-intl-fonts.el (source)...done
Loading recentf...done
Loading /home/red/.emacs.d/recentf...done
Cleaning up the recentf list...done (0 removed)
Starting new Ispell process aspell with default dictionary...
Wrote /home/red/.emacs.d/.emacs.desktop.lock
Desktop: 1 frame, 1 buffer restored.
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.

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Features:
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Memory information:
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(string-bytes 1 4250030)
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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Eli Zaretskii
> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 17:11:37 +0200
>
> Emacs does not correctly display Hebrew text with vowels. The vowels
> appear next to the consonants rather than beneath them. When they are
> beneath the consonants they are not in the correct position. There are a
> few other anomalies too, such as, the dagesh appears misplaced followed
> by a circle. If I export my documents with Hebrew text in org mode to html
> or odf then the Hebrew IS displayed correctly. I have tried changing the
> font, installing "unicode-fonts" and a host of other solutions. I have
> tried using different versions of Emacs. I use utf-8 as my default
> encoding system. If I open the same text document in LibreOffice, again,
> the text is displayed correctly. If I strip the Hebrew text of vowels
> then the consonants appear correctly in Emacs. If I use
> auto-composition-mode it makes no difference. The Hebrew text remains
> incorrectly displayed

This description most probably means that the font Emacs uses for
Hebrew characters either doesn't have glyphs for the diacritics, or
the font is somehow unsuitable for displaying Hebrew due to bad
metrics.

FWIW, Hebrew display works just fine for me since Emacs 24 and to this
day, including all the versions in-between.  So this certainly isn't
an inherent problem with Emacs.

Therefore, I suggest to investigate this one step at a time:

  . Does the problem happen in "emacs -Q"?  If not, some of your
    customizations cause the problem, and you need to find out which
    one(s).

  . If the problem does happen in "emacs -Q", please move the cursor
    to one instance of such incorrect display and type "C-u C-x =",
    then post here the full contents of the *Help* buffer that Emacs
    pops up in response.

Please note that auto-composition-mode _must_ be turned on for the
Hebrew diacritics to be displayed correctly.  So in all of the
experiments you will do during discussion of this problem, please
always have auto-composition-mode turned on (as it is by default).

Thanks.



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Eli Zaretskii
[Please use Reply to All to reply to the bug tracker as well, so this
discussion gets recorded by the tracker.]

> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:59:24 +0200
>
> Thank you for your response. Yes, the problem still occurs in Emacs -Q.
>
> I did as you asked and here are the full contents of the help buffers of
> _two_ instances:
>
>               position: 71 of 9244927 (0%), column: 7
>              character: ְ (displayed as ְ) (codepoint 1456, #o2660, #x5b0)
>      preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
> code point in charset: 0x05B0
>                 script: hebrew
>                 syntax: w     which means: word
>               category: ^:Combining
>               to input: type "C-x 8 RET 5b0" or "C-x 8 RET HEBREW POINT SHEVA"
>            buffer code: #xD6 #xB0
>              file code: #xD6 #xB0 (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
>                display: by this font (glyph code)
>      xft:-unknown-Ezra SIL-normal-normal-normal-*-22-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#xFE)
>
> Character code properties: customize what to show
>    name: HEBREW POINT SHEVA
>    general-category: Mn (Mark, Nonspacing)
>    decomposition: (1456) ('ְ')
>
> There are text properties here:
>    fontified            t
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>               position: 733239 of 9244928 (8%), column: 5
>              character: ׁ (displayed as ׁ) (codepoint 1473, #o2701, #x5c1)
>                charset: unicode-bmp (Unicode Basic Multilingual Plane (U+0000..U+FFFF))
> code point in charset: 0x05C1
>                 script: hebrew
>                 syntax: w     which means: word
>               category: ^:Combining
>               to input: type "C-x 8 RET 5c1" or "C-x 8 RET HEBREW POINT SHIN DOT"
>            buffer code: #xD7 #x81
>              file code: #xD7 #x81 (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
>                display: composed to form "ׁ" (see below)
>
> Composed using this font:
>    xft:-unknown-Ezra SIL-normal-normal-normal-*-24-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1
> by these glyphs:
>    [2 2 9676 334 18 2 17 15 -1 nil]
>    [2 2 1473 271 0 13 16 20 -18 nil]
>
> Character code properties: customize what to show
>    name: HEBREW POINT SHIN DOT
>    general-category: Mn (Mark, Nonspacing)
>    decomposition: (1473) ('ׁ')
>
> There are text properties here:
>    fontified            t
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These two characters are diacriticals.  I'd also ask to please do the
same with cursor on the base character (consonant), where a problem
happens.  For example, on the LAMED from the first screenshot.

Also, can you try with a more standard font, like DejaVu Sans Mono?

And finally, do you know what version of the libm17n-flt do you have
installed?  This library is used for shaping text of scripts such as
Arabic and Hebrew.

> For your interest I also attach a few screenshots as examples.

I attach them below, since you didn't CC the bug address.


Screenshot at 2019-06-11 20-50-27.png (24K) Download Attachment
Screenshot at 2019-06-11 20-53-15.png (25K) Download Attachment
Screenshot at 2019-06-11 20-56-24.png (24K) Download Attachment
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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Raoul Comninos
I have libm17n-0 and libm17n-dev installed.

I changed to dejavu-sans-mono. (No change to the Hebrew font display.)

Below follows the information you asked for:

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

              position: 935 of 9244927 (0%), column: 7
             character: לּ‎ (displayed as לּ‎) (codepoint 64316, #o175474,
#xfb3c)
               charset: unicode-bmp (Unicode Basic Multilingual Plane
(U+0000..U+FFFF))
code point in charset: 0xFB3C
                script: hebrew
                syntax: w     which means: word
              category: .:Base, R:Right-to-left (strong)
              to input: type "C-x 8 RET fb3c" or "C-x 8 RET HEBREW
LETTER LAMED WITH DAGESH"
           buffer code: #xEF #xAC #xBC
             file code: #xEF #xAC #xBC (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
               display: by this font (glyph code)
     xft:-unknown-DejaVu
Sans-normal-normal-normal-*-29-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x13DB)

Character code properties: customize what to show
   name: HEBREW LETTER LAMED WITH DAGESH
   general-category: Lo (Letter, Other)
   decomposition: (1500 1468) ('ל' 'ּ')

There are text properties here:
   fontified

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

On 2019/06/12 18:23, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> [Please use Reply to All to reply to the bug tracker as well, so this
> discussion gets recorded by the tracker.]
>
>> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:59:24 +0200
>>
>> Thank you for your response. Yes, the problem still occurs in Emacs -Q.
>>
>> I did as you asked and here are the full contents of the help buffers of
>> _two_ instances:
>>
>>                position: 71 of 9244927 (0%), column: 7
>>               character: ְ (displayed as ְ) (codepoint 1456, #o2660, #x5b0)
>>       preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
>> code point in charset: 0x05B0
>>                  script: hebrew
>>                  syntax: w     which means: word
>>                category: ^:Combining
>>                to input: type "C-x 8 RET 5b0" or "C-x 8 RET HEBREW POINT SHEVA"
>>             buffer code: #xD6 #xB0
>>               file code: #xD6 #xB0 (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
>>                 display: by this font (glyph code)
>>       xft:-unknown-Ezra SIL-normal-normal-normal-*-22-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#xFE)
>>
>> Character code properties: customize what to show
>>     name: HEBREW POINT SHEVA
>>     general-category: Mn (Mark, Nonspacing)
>>     decomposition: (1456) ('ְ')
>>
>> There are text properties here:
>>     fontified            t
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>                position: 733239 of 9244928 (8%), column: 5
>>               character: ׁ (displayed as ׁ) (codepoint 1473, #o2701, #x5c1)
>>                 charset: unicode-bmp (Unicode Basic Multilingual Plane (U+0000..U+FFFF))
>> code point in charset: 0x05C1
>>                  script: hebrew
>>                  syntax: w     which means: word
>>                category: ^:Combining
>>                to input: type "C-x 8 RET 5c1" or "C-x 8 RET HEBREW POINT SHIN DOT"
>>             buffer code: #xD7 #x81
>>               file code: #xD7 #x81 (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
>>                 display: composed to form "ׁ" (see below)
>>
>> Composed using this font:
>>     xft:-unknown-Ezra SIL-normal-normal-normal-*-24-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1
>> by these glyphs:
>>     [2 2 9676 334 18 2 17 15 -1 nil]
>>     [2 2 1473 271 0 13 16 20 -18 nil]
>>
>> Character code properties: customize what to show
>>     name: HEBREW POINT SHIN DOT
>>     general-category: Mn (Mark, Nonspacing)
>>     decomposition: (1473) ('ׁ')
>>
>> There are text properties here:
>>     fontified            t
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> These two characters are diacriticals.  I'd also ask to please do the
> same with cursor on the base character (consonant), where a problem
> happens.  For example, on the LAMED from the first screenshot.
>
> Also, can you try with a more standard font, like DejaVu Sans Mono?
>
> And finally, do you know what version of the libm17n-flt do you have
> installed?  This library is used for shaping text of scripts such as
> Arabic and Hebrew.
>
>> For your interest I also attach a few screenshots as examples.
> I attach them below, since you didn't CC the bug address.
>



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Eli Zaretskii
> Cc: [hidden email]
> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 20:19:52 +0200
>
> I have libm17n-0 and libm17n-dev installed.
>
> I changed to dejavu-sans-mono. (No change to the Hebrew font display.)
>
> Below follows the information you asked for:
>
> ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
>               position: 935 of 9244927 (0%), column: 7
>              character: לּ‎ (displayed as לּ‎) (codepoint 64316, #o175474,
> #xfb3c)
>                charset: unicode-bmp (Unicode Basic Multilingual Plane
> (U+0000..U+FFFF))
> code point in charset: 0xFB3C
>                 script: hebrew
>                 syntax: w     which means: word
>               category: .:Base, R:Right-to-left (strong)
>               to input: type "C-x 8 RET fb3c" or "C-x 8 RET HEBREW
> LETTER LAMED WITH DAGESH"
>            buffer code: #xEF #xAC #xBC
>              file code: #xEF #xAC #xBC (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
>                display: by this font (glyph code)
>      xft:-unknown-DejaVu
> Sans-normal-normal-normal-*-29-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x13DB)
>
> Character code properties: customize what to show
>    name: HEBREW LETTER LAMED WITH DAGESH
>    general-category: Lo (Letter, Other)
>    decomposition: (1500 1468) ('ל' 'ּ')

So you are saying that this character was not displayed correctly,
i.e. DAGESH was not inside LAMED?  If not, what is the problem with
displaying this character and the characters around it?

Anyway, it is very strange that only you see these problems.  Would it
be possible for you to build the latest master branch of the Emacs
development repository?  There we support text shaping with HarfBuzz
(which you will need to install separately before building Emacs), so
any potential problems with libm17n-flt you have installed should not
affect the display.



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Eli Zaretskii
It could be a problem with the order of typing the diacriticals when
there are more than one for a single base letter.  For example, for
BET WITH DAGESH AND SHEVA, try typing BET, then SHEVA, and only after
that DAGESH.  And similarly in the other cases where you have DAGESH
and another diacritical.

Does that help?



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Raoul Comninos
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
The problem is not with the lamed. It does have the dagesh. The vowel
which should be below the lamed is not directly underneath it but
misplaced. To be clear, the problem seems to be with how Emacs reads
these particular documents. If I type the Hebrew myself directly into
Emacs there are no problems with the display. These documents were
originally created in other word processors: Word, Nota Bene , and
Google Docs. They were converted then to plain text (utf-8) which is the
format they are now in: plain text.

I am currently trying the latest Emacs from git. I have also installed
gir1.2-harfbuzz-0.0. Is that the correct program?

On 2019/06/12 20:48, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Cc: [hidden email]
>> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 20:19:52 +0200
>>
>> I have libm17n-0 and libm17n-dev installed.
>>
>> I changed to dejavu-sans-mono. (No change to the Hebrew font display.)
>>
>> Below follows the information you asked for:
>>
>> ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>
>>                position: 935 of 9244927 (0%), column: 7
>>               character: לּ‎ (displayed as לּ‎) (codepoint 64316, #o175474,
>> #xfb3c)
>>                 charset: unicode-bmp (Unicode Basic Multilingual Plane
>> (U+0000..U+FFFF))
>> code point in charset: 0xFB3C
>>                  script: hebrew
>>                  syntax: w     which means: word
>>                category: .:Base, R:Right-to-left (strong)
>>                to input: type "C-x 8 RET fb3c" or "C-x 8 RET HEBREW
>> LETTER LAMED WITH DAGESH"
>>             buffer code: #xEF #xAC #xBC
>>               file code: #xEF #xAC #xBC (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
>>                 display: by this font (glyph code)
>>       xft:-unknown-DejaVu
>> Sans-normal-normal-normal-*-29-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x13DB)
>>
>> Character code properties: customize what to show
>>     name: HEBREW LETTER LAMED WITH DAGESH
>>     general-category: Lo (Letter, Other)
>>     decomposition: (1500 1468) ('ל' 'ּ')
> So you are saying that this character was not displayed correctly,
> i.e. DAGESH was not inside LAMED?  If not, what is the problem with
> displaying this character and the characters around it?
>
> Anyway, it is very strange that only you see these problems.  Would it
> be possible for you to build the latest master branch of the Emacs
> development repository?  There we support text shaping with HarfBuzz
> (which you will need to install separately before building Emacs), so
> any potential problems with libm17n-flt you have installed should not
> affect the display.



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Eli Zaretskii
> Cc: [hidden email]
> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:27:10 +0200
>
> To be clear, the problem seems to be with how Emacs reads
> these particular documents. If I type the Hebrew myself directly into
> Emacs there are no problems with the display. These documents were
> originally created in other word processors: Word, Nota Bene , and
> Google Docs. They were converted then to plain text (utf-8) which is the
> format they are now in: plain text.

I wasn't aware that the problem disappears if you type Hebrew, and
appears only with these documents.  If so, can you send one such
document as an attachment?

Am I to understand that if you type the same exact text into Emacs,
there's no problem with the display?  If so, the reason must be in the
documents themselves: something in how the text is laid out there
causes this.  Being able to look at such a document is therefore
important for investigating this issue.

> I am currently trying the latest Emacs from git. I have also installed
> gir1.2-harfbuzz-0.0. Is that the correct program?

Emacs needs HarfBuzz the library, not the program.  What does the
following produce inside the latest Emacs you built from Git:

  M-: (frame-parameter nil 'font-backend) RET



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Raoul Comninos
I have attached a sample document with problematic Hebrew taken from a
few of the files.

> Am I to understand that if you type the same exact text into Emacs,
> there's no problem with the display?

Yes, that is correct.

>> gir1.2-harfbuzz-0.0. Is that the correct program?

(xft xfthb x)

> Emacs needs HarfBuzz the library, not the program.  What does the
> following produce inside the latest Emacs you built from Git:
>
>    M-: (frame-parameter nil 'font-backend) RET


sample.org (14K) Download Attachment
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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Eli Zaretskii
> Cc: [hidden email]
> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:53:24 +0200
>
> I have attached a sample document with problematic Hebrew taken from a
> few of the files.

Ah, I see.  This document uses precomposed Hebrew characters from the
Alphabetic Presentation Forms block, and we didn't include those in
the regular expressions used for finding sequences we need to compose
for display.  I've now fixed this in Git, you should be able to
rebuild after syncing with Git, and then the problem should go away.

> (xft xfthb x)
>
> > Emacs needs HarfBuzz the library, not the program.  What does the
> > following produce inside the latest Emacs you built from Git:
> >
> >    M-: (frame-parameter nil 'font-backend) RET

Yes, xfthb uses HarfBuzz to perform text shaping.

Thanks.



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Raoul Comninos
I am very pleased we are making progress. If we can get this right, it
is going to save me having to retype all the Hebrew! The text certainly
looks much better but the problem is not as yet fully resolved. There
remain circles in the text (see attachment). If I try to delete them,
something is lost from the word, either a vowel or a dagesh. I have also
taken a screen shot of the Emacs version. Please confirm this is the
correct one I should be using.

On 2019/06/13 11:44, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Cc: [hidden email]
>> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:53:24 +0200
>>
>> I have attached a sample document with problematic Hebrew taken from a
>> few of the files.
> Ah, I see.  This document uses precomposed Hebrew characters from the
> Alphabetic Presentation Forms block, and we didn't include those in
> the regular expressions used for finding sequences we need to compose
> for display.  I've now fixed this in Git, you should be able to
> rebuild after syncing with Git, and then the problem should go away.
>
>> (xft xfthb x)
>>
>>> Emacs needs HarfBuzz the library, not the program.  What does the
>>> following produce inside the latest Emacs you built from Git:
>>>
>>>     M-: (frame-parameter nil 'font-backend) RET
> Yes, xfthb uses HarfBuzz to perform text shaping.
>
> Thanks.

circles.png (223K) Download Attachment
emacs-version.png (111K) Download Attachment
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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Eli Zaretskii
> Cc: [hidden email]
> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 14:54:19 +0200
>
> I am very pleased we are making progress. If we can get this right, it
> is going to save me having to retype all the Hebrew! The text certainly
> looks much better but the problem is not as yet fully resolved. There
> remain circles in the text (see attachment).

I don't see any such circles on my system.  I tried half a dozen
different fonts, and they all work correctly.  How many fonts did you
try?



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Robert Pluim
>>>>> On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:14:00 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <[hidden email]> said:

    >> Cc: [hidden email]
    >> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
    >> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 14:54:19 +0200
    >>
    >> I am very pleased we are making progress. If we can get this right, it
    >> is going to save me having to retype all the Hebrew! The text certainly
    >> looks much better but the problem is not as yet fully resolved. There
    >> remain circles in the text (see attachment).

    Eli> I don't see any such circles on my system.  I tried half a dozen
    Eli> different fonts, and they all work correctly.  How many fonts did you
    Eli> try?

I see circles on my GNU/Linux box, but only when using the xft font
backend, eg the second character from the left (visually) on the
'Aoristic perfect' line. If I put

(add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(font-backend xfthb))

in my .emacs, then everything displays correctly. I thought HarfBuzz
was supposed to be preferred to xft?

Robert



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Eli Zaretskii
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
[Please keep the bug address on the CC list.]

> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:58:26 +0200
>
> Are you speaking of the default Emacs font?

Yes.

> At present I am using Dejavu Sans Mono. How would I go about
> changing the font expressly for the Hebrew display? I removed
> fonts-sil-ezra. Would I need to use the unicode-fonts package?

If you are using Dejavu Sans Mono, please try a few more fonts.  No
need to set a special font for Hebrew, just invoke Emacs like this:

  emacs -Q -fn FONT-NAME

where FONT-NAME is the name of some font you have on your system.

Also, please go to some character that precedes a circle, type
"C-u C-x =" again, and show the output here, I want to make sure you
are using the xfthb font backend.



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Eli Zaretskii
In reply to this post by Robert Pluim
> From: Robert Pluim <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>,  [hidden email]
> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 18:07:06 +0200
>
>     Eli> I don't see any such circles on my system.  I tried half a dozen
>     Eli> different fonts, and they all work correctly.  How many fonts did you
>     Eli> try?
>
> I see circles on my GNU/Linux box, but only when using the xft font
> backend, eg the second character from the left (visually) on the
> 'Aoristic perfect' line. If I put
>
> (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(font-backend xfthb))
>
> in my .emacs, then everything displays correctly.

That's what I thought, thanks.  So these circles are a deficiency of
FLT shaping.

> I thought HarfBuzz was supposed to be preferred to xft?

It's supposed to, but, disappointedly,
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2019-06/msg00124.html
remains without a response, and therefore only the Windows build
currently prefers HarfBuzz.  I still hope Yamamoto-san will respond
and describe his proposal, and we could then implement the same
behavior on all platforms.



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Raoul Comninos
I have tried out several different fonts but there is no change to the
problem.

I still see the circles. These can be turned off if I turn off
auto-composition-mode. However, though the  circles then disappear, the
vowels appear incorrectly placed. They are not as poorly placed as
before, but still do not all properly align beneath the consonants. Some
vowels are slightly off.

I added (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(font-backend xfthb)) to my
.emacs file, but this made no difference.

Below is the information you requested.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

              position: 50 of 9235 (1%), column: 7
             character: ְ (displayed as ְ) (codepoint 1456, #o2660, #x5b0)
               charset: unicode-bmp (Unicode Basic Multilingual Plane
(U+0000..U+FFFF))
code point in charset: 0x05B0
                script: hebrew
                syntax: w     which means: word
              category: ^:Combining
              to input: type "C-x 8 RET 5b0" or "C-x 8 RET HEBREW POINT
SHEVA"
           buffer code: #xD6 #xB0
             file code: #xD6 #xB0 (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
               display: composed to form "ְ" (see below)

Composed using this font:
   xft:-unknown-DejaVu Sans-normal-normal-normal-*-26-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1
by these glyphs:
   [1 1 9676 3748 23 1 22 17 4 nil]
   [1 1 1456 1297 0 7 9 -1 6 nil]

Character code properties: customize what to show
   name: HEBREW POINT SHEVA
   general-category: Mn (Mark, Nonspacing)
   decomposition: (1456) ('ְ')

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

              position: 41 of 9235 (0%), column: 0
             character: בּ‎ (displayed as בּ‎) (codepoint 64305, #o175461,
#xfb31)
               charset: unicode-bmp (Unicode Basic Multilingual Plane
(U+0000..U+FFFF))
code point in charset: 0xFB31
                script: hebrew
                syntax: w     which means: word
              category: .:Base, R:Right-to-left (strong)
              to input: type "C-x 8 RET fb31" or "C-x 8 RET HEBREW
LETTER BET WITH DAGESH"
           buffer code: #xEF #xAC #xB1
             file code: #xEF #xAC #xB1 (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
               display: by this font (glyph code)
     xft:-unknown-DejaVu
Sans-normal-normal-normal-*-26-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x13D1)

Character code properties: customize what to show
   name: HEBREW LETTER BET WITH DAGESH
   general-category: Lo (Letter, Other)
   decomposition: (1489 1468) ('ב' 'ּ')

There are text properties here:
   fontified            t

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

On 2019/06/13 18:42, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: Robert Pluim <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>,  [hidden email]
>> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 18:07:06 +0200
>>
>>      Eli> I don't see any such circles on my system.  I tried half a dozen
>>      Eli> different fonts, and they all work correctly.  How many fonts did you
>>      Eli> try?
>>
>> I see circles on my GNU/Linux box, but only when using the xft font
>> backend, eg the second character from the left (visually) on the
>> 'Aoristic perfect' line. If I put
>>
>> (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(font-backend xfthb))
>>
>> in my .emacs, then everything displays correctly.
> That's what I thought, thanks.  So these circles are a deficiency of
> FLT shaping.
>
>> I thought HarfBuzz was supposed to be preferred to xft?
> It's supposed to, but, disappointedly,
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2019-06/msg00124.html
> remains without a response, and therefore only the Windows build
> currently prefers HarfBuzz.  I still hope Yamamoto-san will respond
> and describe his proposal, and we could then implement the same
> behavior on all platforms.



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Eli Zaretskii
> Cc: [hidden email], YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu <[hidden email]>
> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 20:39:10 +0200
>
> I have tried out several different fonts but there is no change to the
> problem.
>
> I still see the circles.

That's because your Emacs uses the XFT/FLT shaping, not the HarfBuzz
shaping.

Try starting Emacs like this:

  emacs -Q -xrm Emacs.fontBackend:xfthb

and then see if the problem goes away.  You should see "xfthb" in the
"C-u C-x =" display, here you currently see "xft":

>    xft:-unknown-DejaVu Sans-normal-normal-normal-*-26-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1
     ^^^

> I added (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(font-backend xfthb)) to my
> .emacs file, but this made no difference.

My crystal ball says that you added that too late in the init file.
You must do this at the very beginning.

In any case, for whatever reason, your Emacs still uses the XFT font
backend, not the HarfBuzz-powered xfthb.  I believe that's why you see
the circles: FLT doesn't support composition of the characters from
the Alphabetic Presentations Forms block.



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Raoul Comninos
If I start Emacs with emacs -Q -xrm Emacs.fontBackend:xfthb I still see
xft.

However, I have moved (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(font-backend
xfthb)) to the front of my .emacs and this appears to have resolved the
problem. I no longer see circles and the Hebrew font is properly displayed.

Thank you very much Eli for your help with this. I am going to test it
today further just to make sure but so far however, all seems well.

With much appreciation.

Kind regards

Raoul Comninos

On 2019/06/13 20:57, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Cc: [hidden email], YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu <[hidden email]>
>> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 20:39:10 +0200
>>
>> I have tried out several different fonts but there is no change to the
>> problem.
>>
>> I still see the circles.
> That's because your Emacs uses the XFT/FLT shaping, not the HarfBuzz
> shaping.
>
> Try starting Emacs like this:
>
>    emacs -Q -xrm Emacs.fontBackend:xfthb
>
> and then see if the problem goes away.  You should see "xfthb" in the
> "C-u C-x =" display, here you currently see "xft":
>
>>     xft:-unknown-DejaVu Sans-normal-normal-normal-*-26-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1
>       ^^^
>
>> I added (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(font-backend xfthb)) to my
>> .emacs file, but this made no difference.
> My crystal ball says that you added that too late in the init file.
> You must do this at the very beginning.
>
> In any case, for whatever reason, your Emacs still uses the XFT font
> backend, not the HarfBuzz-powered xfthb.  I believe that's why you see
> the circles: FLT doesn't support composition of the characters from
> the Alphabetic Presentations Forms block.



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Eli Zaretskii
> Cc: [hidden email], [hidden email]
> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:51:21 +0200
>
> If I start Emacs with emacs -Q -xrm Emacs.fontBackend:xfthb I still see
> xft.
>
> However, I have moved (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(font-backend
> xfthb)) to the front of my .emacs and this appears to have resolved the
> problem. I no longer see circles and the Hebrew font is properly displayed.
>
> Thank you very much Eli for your help with this. I am going to test it
> today further just to make sure but so far however, all seems well.

And thanks to Robert for testing on GNU/Linux.

Please come back in a day or two and tell if you see any problems, I'd
like to close the bug report if no other problems remain.

Thanks.



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bug#36171: 25.1; Emacs displays Hebrew text incorrectly

Raoul Comninos
Thanks to you and also Robert. I will test it out and report to you in a
day or two.

On 2019/06/14 14:22, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Cc: [hidden email], [hidden email]
>> From: Raoul Comninos <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:51:21 +0200
>>
>> If I start Emacs with emacs -Q -xrm Emacs.fontBackend:xfthb I still see
>> xft.
>>
>> However, I have moved (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(font-backend
>> xfthb)) to the front of my .emacs and this appears to have resolved the
>> problem. I no longer see circles and the Hebrew font is properly displayed.
>>
>> Thank you very much Eli for your help with this. I am going to test it
>> today further just to make sure but so far however, all seems well.
> And thanks to Robert for testing on GNU/Linux.
>
> Please come back in a day or two and tell if you see any problems, I'd
> like to close the bug report if no other problems remain.
>
> Thanks.



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