bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

myglc2
To see an example, search bug-gnu-emacs for 'server-name', e.g.,

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=server-name&submit=Search%21&idxname=bug-gnu-emacs&max=20&result=normal&sort=score

This gives 20 hits non of which is ...

https://debbugs.gnu.org/23576
[documentation] ‘Using Emacs as a Server’: ‘M-x set-variable RET server-name RET foo RET’

In GNU Emacs 25.3.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
 of 2017-11-02 built on localhost
Configured using:
 'configure
 CONFIG_SHELL=/gnu/store/6hsr7fb705l35g6rqx0ai5qhaj0hzlsp-bash-minimal-4.4.12/bin/bash
 SHELL=/gnu/store/6hsr7fb705l35g6rqx0ai5qhaj0hzlsp-bash-minimal-4.4.12/bin/bash
 --prefix=/gnu/store/0db35vnbjkzrjl75pb8jh9x8c7glp9ai-emacs-no-x-toolkit-25.3
 --enable-fast-install --build=x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
 --with-x-toolkit=no'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS NOTIFY ACL
GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB X11

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.utf8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: IBuffer

Minor modes in effect:
  magit-auto-revert-mode: t
  global-git-commit-mode: t
  async-bytecomp-package-mode: t
  diff-auto-refine-mode: t
  erc-list-mode: t
  erc-menu-mode: t
  erc-autojoin-mode: t
  erc-ring-mode: t
  erc-networks-mode: t
  erc-pcomplete-mode: t
  erc-track-mode: t
  erc-match-mode: t
  erc-button-mode: t
  erc-fill-mode: t
  erc-stamp-mode: t
  erc-netsplit-mode: t
  erc-irccontrols-mode: t
  erc-noncommands-mode: t
  erc-move-to-prompt-mode: t
  erc-readonly-mode: t
  global-hl-line-mode: t
  volatile-highlights-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  winner-mode: t
  xterm-mouse-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-read-only: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent messages:
C-x C-g is undefined
Updating buffer list...done
Commands: m, u, t, RET, g, k, S, D, Q; q to quit; h for help
command-execute: Selecting deleted buffer
mu4e-error: [mu4e] No attachments for this message
Quit
funcall-interactively: End of buffer
Contacting host: debbugs.gnu.org:443
[mu4e] Retrieving mail...done
[mu4e] Indexing... processed 16000, updated 0

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Features:
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misearch multi-isearch dired-aux ibuf-ext ibuffer url-util shr-color
color shr dom erc-list erc-menu erc-join erc-ring erc-networks
erc-pcomplete erc-track erc-match erc-button wid-edit erc-fill erc-stamp
erc-netsplit erc-goodies erc erc-backend erc-compat pp term/xterm xterm
paredit web-mode-expansions web-mode disp-table graphviz-dot-mode
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cl-extra help-mode easymenu cl-seq guix-emacs cl-macs gv rx cl-loaddefs
pcase cl-lib mule-util tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook
vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd
fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode
lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select
scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame
cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai
tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian
slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese charscript
case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer
cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files
text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule
custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote dbusbind inotify
dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting x multi-tty
make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 567230 61288)
 (symbols 48 49267 5)
 (miscs 40 6225 3215)
 (strings 32 122989 19208)
 (string-bytes 1 3723030)
 (vectors 16 52589)
 (vector-slots 8 1288932 32057)
 (floats 8 1248 3925)
 (intervals 56 15646 2771)
 (buffers 976 125))



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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

Glenn Morris-3
myglc2 wrote:

> To see an example, search bug-gnu-emacs for 'server-name', e.g.,
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=server-name&submit=Search%21&idxname=bug-gnu-emacs&max=20&result=normal&sort=score
>
> This gives 20 hits non of which is ...
>
> https://debbugs.gnu.org/23576
> [documentation] 'Using Emacs as a Server': 'M-x set-variable RET server-name RET foo RET'

lists.gnu.org is general GNU infrastructure not maintained by anyone
here at Emacs. I'm not sure what the right contact address is; perhaps
mailman at gnu.org.




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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

myglc2
It seems like the bug-gnu-emacs archive is not being properly
indexed/searched.

Please see forwarded emacs bug#29290 below ...

On 11/13/2017 at 23:45 Glenn Morris writes:

> myglc2 wrote:
>
>> To see an example, search bug-gnu-emacs for 'server-name', e.g.,
>>
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=server-name&submit=Search%21&idxname=bug-gnu-emacs&max=20&result=normal&sort=score
>>
>> This gives 20 hits non of which is ...
>>
>> https://debbugs.gnu.org/23576
>> [documentation] 'Using Emacs as a Server': 'M-x set-variable RET server-name RET foo RET'
>
> lists.gnu.org is general GNU infrastructure not maintained by anyone
> here at Emacs. I'm not sure what the right contact address is; perhaps
> mailman at gnu.org.




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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

Eli Zaretskii
In reply to this post by myglc2
> From: myglc2 <[hidden email]>
> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:17:28 -0500
>
> To see an example, search bug-gnu-emacs for 'server-name', e.g.,
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=server-name&submit=Search%21&idxname=bug-gnu-emacs&max=20&result=normal&sort=score
>
> This gives 20 hits non of which is ...
>
> https://debbugs.gnu.org/23576
> [documentation] ‘Using Emacs as a Server’: ‘M-x set-variable RET server-name RET foo RET’

My suggestion is to use the search engine of the bug tracker, at

  https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/search.cgi

It is more sophisticated and does find the above bug report.

The reasons why the mailman search didn't find the report could be a
few.  One of them could be the way the Subject line was formatted
(download the bug report in mbox format and see for yourself).  Or it
could be some other snafu.  But you are advised to try the above
search engine before concluding that a bug for some issue doesn't
exist.



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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

myglc2

On 11/14/2017 at 15:18 Eli Zaretskii writes:

>> From: myglc2 <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:17:28 -0500
>>
>> To see an example, search bug-gnu-emacs for 'server-name', e.g.,
>>
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=server-name&submit=Search%21&idxname=bug-gnu-emacs&max=20&result=normal&sort=score
>>
>> This gives 20 hits non of which is ...
>>
>> https://debbugs.gnu.org/23576
>> [documentation] ‘Using Emacs as a Server’: ‘M-x set-variable RET
>> server-name RET foo RET’

> My suggestion is to use the search engine of the bug tracker, at
>
>   https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/search.cgi
>
> It is more sophisticated and does find the above bug report.

I tried the link above. It takes an unnatural amount of effort to find
the bug between the garbled titles and summary lines.

> The reasons why the mailman search didn't find the report could be a
> few.  One of them could be the way the Subject line was formatted
> (download the bug report in mbox format and see for yourself).  Or it
> could be some other snafu.

But aren't you alarmed it works so poorly?

> But you are advised to try the above
> search engine before concluding that a bug for some issue doesn't
> exist.

Sorry, I didn't see that. Where is this advised?

'M-x report-emacs-bug' mentions debbugs.gnu.org but does not provide any
specific advice.

The first google hit for "emacs bug" is https://debbugs.gnu.org

So, OK, both put you on debbugs.gnu.org. Now if you search the page for
"emacs" ...

... the first hit is the aforementioned mailman search ;-(

... the second hit is

https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs;max-bugs=100;base-order=1;bug-rev=1

... which I can't get to find the bug ;-(

So, bottom line,

1) if you _don't want_ people to go to mailman search please _remove the
   1st link_ on debbugs.gnu.org

2) if you want people to go to the search link you gave me, please _edit
   the 2nd link_ debbugs.gnu.org

3) If you want average users to use
   https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/search.cgi to pre-chew bug reports please
   to improve its usability.



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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

Eli Zaretskii
> From: myglc2 <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 12:42:36 -0500
>
> >   https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/search.cgi
> >
> > It is more sophisticated and does find the above bug report.
>
> I tried the link above. It takes an unnatural amount of effort to find
> the bug between the garbled titles and summary lines.

"Garbled"?  What do you see there, exactly, and what browser did you
use to do that?  I see nothing garbled, everything is perfectly
legible and clear.  I wonder what did you do differently and what did
you see.

After getting to the above search page, I type "server-name" into the
"Phrase" field, select "Order by Submission date", in "descending
(number or date)" order, change "Max results" to 100, and click
"Search".  Did you do something else?

> > The reasons why the mailman search didn't find the report could be a
> > few.  One of them could be the way the Subject line was formatted
> > (download the bug report in mbox format and see for yourself).  Or it
> > could be some other snafu.
>
> But aren't you alarmed it works so poorly?

Alarmed? no.  Searching for a particular discussion is never easy for
me.

> > But you are advised to try the above
> > search engine before concluding that a bug for some issue doesn't
> > exist.
>
> Sorry, I didn't see that. Where is this advised?

In my email.

> The first google hit for "emacs bug" is https://debbugs.gnu.org
>
> So, OK, both put you on debbugs.gnu.org. Now if you search the page for
> "emacs" ...
>
> ... the first hit is the aforementioned mailman search ;-(
>
> ... the second hit is
>
> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs;max-bugs=100;base-order=1;bug-rev=1
>
> ... which I can't get to find the bug ;-(

I see none of what you see, sorry.  It's as if we were in two
different worlds.  https://debbugs.gnu.org/ has a few links to usage
notes, package maintainers, and other not-so relevant stuff, then a
few fields to use for searching bugs by their numbers, then "General
Search", which I never user, and lastly "Advanced Search", which is
what I suggested to click.  How come what you see is so different?

> So, bottom line,
>
> 1) if you _don't want_ people to go to mailman search please _remove the
>    1st link_ on debbugs.gnu.org
>
> 2) if you want people to go to the search link you gave me, please _edit
>    the 2nd link_ debbugs.gnu.org
>
> 3) If you want average users to use
>    https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/search.cgi to pre-chew bug reports please
>    to improve its usability.

I don't understand what you are talking about, sorry.



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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

myglc2

On 11/14/2017 at 18:53 Eli Zaretskii writes:

>> From: myglc2 <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: [hidden email]
>> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 12:42:36 -0500
>>
>> >   https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/search.cgi
>> >
>> > It is more sophisticated and does find the above bug report.
>>
>> I tried the link above. It takes an unnatural amount of effort to find
>> the bug between the garbled titles and summary lines.
>
> "Garbled"?  What do you see there, exactly, and what browser did you
> use to do that?  I see nothing garbled, everything is perfectly
> legible and clear.  I wonder what did you do differently and what did
> you see.

Using Safari on Macos on https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/search.cgi, when I
enter "server-name AND set-variable" and look in the results for 23576,
I find ...

#23576: Re: bug#23576: [documentation] =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98Using?= Emacs
 as a Package: emacs
 Severity: minor;
 Sent by: Eli Zaretskii <[hidden email]> at Wed, 18 May 2016 22:53:33
 +0300
 Received: (at 23576-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 May 2016 19:53:50
 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bou  . . .  s as a
 =?utf-8?Q?Server=E2=80=99=3A_=E2=80=98M-x?= set-variable RET
 server-name RET foo =?utf-8?Q?RET=E2=80=99?= R  . . .  ach one a unique
 â€œserver name”, using the variable server-name. For > example,
 M-x set-variable RET server-name R  . . .
 ode/emacs/Emacs-Server.html > > First of all, ‘M-x set-variable RET
 server-name RET foo RET' just does > not work,  . . .  rning “Value
 â€˜foo' does not match type string of > server-name”. It actually
 should be ‘M-x set-variable RET serv

I call this "garbled" because it is so mangled by escape that the title
is uninformative and the paragraph is unreadable.

It looks the same in Chrome. It looks only a bit better in 'M-x eww' ...

* #23576: Re: bug#23576: [documentation] =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98Using?= Emacs as a Package:
 emacs
 Severity: minor;
 Sent by: Eli Zaretskii <[hidden email]> at Wed, 18 May 2016 22:53:33 +0300

 Received: (at 23576-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 May 2016 19:53:50 +0000 From
 debbugs-submit-bou . . . s as a =?utf-8?Q?Server=E2=80=99=3A_=E2=80=98M-x?=
 set-variable RET server-name RET foo =?utf-8?Q?RET=E2=80=99?= R . . . ach one a unique
 “server name”, using the variable server-name. For > example, M-x set-variable RET
 server-name R . . . ode/emacs/Emacs-Server.html > > First of all, ‘M-x set-variable
 RET server-name RET foo RET' just does > not work, . . . rning “Value ‘foo' does not
 match type string of > server-name”. It actually should be ‘M-x
 set-variable RET serv

Am I being too harsh? ;-)

>
> After getting to the above search page, I type "server-name" into the
> "Phrase" field, select "Order by Submission date", in "descending
> (number or date)" order, change "Max results" to 100, and click
> "Search".  Did you do something else?

No, the page works that way for me too.

>> > The reasons why the mailman search didn't find the report could be a
>> > few.  One of them could be the way the Subject line was formatted
>> > (download the bug report in mbox format and see for yourself).  Or it
>> > could be some other snafu.
>>
>> But aren't you alarmed it works so poorly?
>
> Alarmed? no.  Searching for a particular discussion is never easy for
> me.
>
Ouch! Search is the great success story of the the 20th century, but
only when you can read the results ;-)
>
>> > But you are advised to try the above
>> > search engine before concluding that a bug for some issue doesn't
>> > exist.
>>
>> Sorry, I didn't see that. Where is this advised?
>
> In my email.

OH, thanks. I thought you were saying I had failed to see something.

>
>> The first google hit for "emacs bug" is https://debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>> So, OK, both put you on debbugs.gnu.org. Now if you search the page for
>> "emacs" ...
>>
>> ... the first hit is the aforementioned mailman search ;-(
>>
>> ... the second hit is
>>
>> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs;max-bugs=100;base-order=1;bug-rev=1
>>
>> ... which I can't get to find the bug ;-(
>
> I see none of what you see, sorry.  It's as if we were in two
> different worlds.  https://debbugs.gnu.org/ has a few links to usage
> notes, package maintainers, and other not-so relevant stuff, then a
> few fields to use for searching bugs by their numbers, then "General
> Search", which I never user, and lastly "Advanced Search", which is
> what I suggested to click.  How come what you see is so different?
>

No we see the same thing but I am talking about some of the what you are
calling "not-so relevant stuff" ;-)

Please look for the links on https://debbugs.gnu.org/ with "emacs" in
their title.

You will see links to ...

1) https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnu-emacs

2) https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs;max-bugs=100;base-order=1;bug-rev=1

These send your emacs users with bugs to report to places that you don't
recommend that they go so I am saying please change them ...

>> So, bottom line,
>>
>> 1) if you _don't want_ people to go to mailman search please _remove the
>>    1st link_ on debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>> 2) if you want people to go to the search link you gave me, please _edit
>>    the 2nd link_ debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>> 3) If you want average users to use
>>    https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/search.cgi to pre-chew bug reports please
>>    to improve its usability.
>
> I don't understand what you are talking about, sorry.

So I tried again. HTH - George



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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

Bob Proulx
In reply to this post by myglc2
On 11/13/2017 at 23:45 Glenn Morris writes:
> myglc2 wrote:
>> To see an example, search bug-gnu-emacs for 'server-name', e.g.,
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=server-name&submit=Search%21&idxname=bug-gnu-emacs&max=20&result=normal&sort=score
>> This gives 20 hits non of which is ...
>> https://debbugs.gnu.org/23576
>> [documentation] 'Using Emacs as a Server': 'M-x set-variable RET server-name RET foo RET'

Let me refine the report a little bit.

Here is the search:

  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=server-name&submit=Search%21&idxname=bug-gnu-emacs&max=1000&result=normal&sort=score

But it does not locate this message which contains that search string:

  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2016-05/msg00923.html
  From: Dmitry Alexandrov
  Subject: bug#23576: [documentation] ‘Using Emacs as a Server’: ‘M-x  set-variable RET server-name RET foo RET’
  Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 22:25:38 +0300

> lists.gnu.org is general GNU infrastructure not maintained by anyone
> here at Emacs. I'm not sure what the right contact address is; perhaps
> mailman at gnu.org.

This is a good address for the report.  FSF sysadmin is on this list.

Bob



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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

Ian Kelling-3
More info, no result on that message searching for the bug number, but
the next bug number works fine.

Not found
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=23576&submit=Search%21&idxname=bug-gnu-emacs&max=100&result=normal&sort=score
Found:
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=23577&submit=Search%21&idxname=bug-gnu-emacs&max=100&result=normal&sort=score

I'll root around in the documentation and on the server until I figure
out whats up.

--
Ian Kelling | Senior Systems Administrator, Free Software Foundation
GPG Key: B125 F60B 7B28 7FF6 A2B7  DF8F 170A F0E2 9542 95DF
https://fsf.org | https://gnu.org



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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

Glenn Morris-3

Thanks! While you are here... :)

I often see it said that the search on

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/

is very messed up. Search results seem to have nothing to do with the query.
As a random example, search for "idempotent" (but anything will do).
I get 20 results, none (?) of which seem to contain the search term.



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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

Eli Zaretskii
In reply to this post by myglc2
> From: myglc2 <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:41:02 -0500
>
> #23576: Re: bug#23576: [documentation] =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98Using?= Emacs

That's not "garbled", that's the RFC 2047 encoded subject line, as
originally produced by the MUA of the person who reported the bug.

> I call this "garbled" because it is so mangled by escape that the title
> is uninformative and the paragraph is unreadable.

You should look at the highlighted matches for the search strings, and
determine whether this is what you are looking for.

> Am I being too harsh? ;-)

Definitely.

> Please look for the links on https://debbugs.gnu.org/ with "emacs" in
> their title.
>
> You will see links to ...
>
> 1) https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnu-emacs
>
> 2) https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs;max-bugs=100;base-order=1;bug-rev=1
>
> These send your emacs users with bugs to report to places that you don't
> recommend that they go so I am saying please change them ...

I see no reason to change that.



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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

Noam Postavsky-2
Eli Zaretskii <[hidden email]> writes:

>> From: myglc2 <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: [hidden email]
>> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:41:02 -0500
>>
>> #23576: Re: bug#23576: [documentation] =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98Using?= Emacs
>
> That's not "garbled", that's the RFC 2047 encoded subject line, as
> originally produced by the MUA of the person who reported the bug.

It's not very human friendly though.  There's also some mojibake from
the fancy quotes:

    one a unique “server nameâ€

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojibake

    Mojibake (文字化け) (IPA: [mod͡ʑibake]; lit. "character transformation"),
    from the Japanese 文字 (moji) "character" + 化け (bake, pronounced
    "bah-keh") "transform", is the garbled text that is the result of text
    being decoded using an unintended character encoding

PS I would find that search much more usable if it coalesced matches to
the same bug; as it is, you typically have to scroll past a lot of
repeats for long bug threads.



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bug#29290: 25.3; bug-gnu-emacs archive web search fails to find matching bugs

Eli Zaretskii
> From: Noam Postavsky <[hidden email]>
> Cc: myglc2 <[hidden email]>,  [hidden email]
> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:47:10 -0500
>
> >> #23576: Re: bug#23576: [documentation] =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98Using?= Emacs
> >
> > That's not "garbled", that's the RFC 2047 encoded subject line, as
> > originally produced by the MUA of the person who reported the bug.
>
> It's not very human friendly though.  There's also some mojibake from
> the fancy quotes:
>
>     one a unique “server nameâ€

Two more reasons not to use curly quotes in email, I guess.

> PS I would find that search much more usable if it coalesced matches to
> the same bug; as it is, you typically have to scroll past a lot of
> repeats for long bug threads.

You are assuming people look for bugs, but that doesn't have to be the
case.  They could look for something mentioned tangentially, or just
in part of the bug discussion.