Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

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Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Dmitry Gutov
Hi Emacs maintainers,

I'm prepared to get a "no" on this, but this is a somewhat interesting
example.

Since the last of the two principal authors of mmm-mode has completed
their copyright assignment, I've been bringing its copyright notices in
order, to add it to ELPA.

There are two files, however, that I've missed in my previous evaluation.

1. mmm-rpm.el. It's ~20 lines, and you could consider its contents to be
"configuration" instead of a program. Nevertheless, it's all been
written by the same guy who never done copyright assignment, so it
doesn't seem fair to write "Copyright by Free Software Foundation" on
top of it.

2. mmm-noweb.el. It's much bigger, and reportedly still used by some
people. Unfortunately, the author has passed away 7 years ago, so no
real chance of copyright assignment.

They are not very essential (we could release one or both separately),
but have them to be exceptions would make my life simpler.

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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Stefan Monnier
> 1. mmm-rpm.el. It's ~20 lines, and you could consider its contents to be
> "configuration" instead of a program. Nevertheless, it's all been written by
> the same guy who never done copyright assignment, so it doesn't seem fair to
> write "Copyright by Free Software Foundation" on top of it.

This can be counted as "trivial" enough not to require copyright
paperwork, indeed.

> 2. mmm-noweb.el. It's much bigger, and reportedly still used by some
> people. Unfortunately, the author has passed away 7 years ago, so no real
> chance of copyright assignment.
>
> They are not very essential (we could release one or both separately), but
> have them to be exceptions would make my life simpler.

I wouldn't mind making an exception for this one.


        Stefan


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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Davis Herring
>> 2. mmm-noweb.el. It's much bigger, and reportedly still used by some
>> people. Unfortunately, the author has passed away 7 years ago, so no real
>> chance of copyright assignment.
>
> I wouldn't mind making an exception for this one.

Don't we have to look to the heir of a deceased copyright holder?

Not-a-lawyer-ly-yours,
Davis
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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Dmitry Gutov
On 3/13/18 6:36 AM, Herring, Davis wrote:
>>> 2. mmm-noweb.el. It's much bigger, and reportedly still used by some
>>> people. Unfortunately, the author has passed away 7 years ago, so no real
>>> chance of copyright assignment.
>>
>> I wouldn't mind making an exception for this one.
>
> Don't we have to look to the heir of a deceased copyright holder?

"Could try to" would seem like a more accurate statement.

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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Dmitry Gutov
In reply to this post by Stefan Monnier
On 3/13/18 2:56 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> 1. mmm-rpm.el. It's ~20 lines, and you could consider its contents to be
>> "configuration" instead of a program. Nevertheless, it's all been written by
>> the same guy who never done copyright assignment, so it doesn't seem fair to
>> write "Copyright by Free Software Foundation" on top of it.
>
> This can be counted as "trivial" enough not to require copyright
> paperwork, indeed.

But copyright notices are per-file, right? I expect the build process to
be confused.

>> 2. mmm-noweb.el. It's much bigger, and reportedly still used by some
>> people. Unfortunately, the author has passed away 7 years ago, so no real
>> chance of copyright assignment.
>>
>> They are not very essential (we could release one or both separately), but
>> have them to be exceptions would make my life simpler.
>
> I wouldn't mind making an exception for this one.

Very good. Do I push the code as is, or do I need to wait for somebody
else's blessing, too?

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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Stefan Monnier
>> This can be counted as "trivial" enough not to require copyright
>> paperwork, indeed.
> But copyright notices are per-file, right?

BTW: As soon as we make a single change to that file, it will deserve
a "Copyright by Free Software Foundation".  What's discussed here,
rather is whether we should also keep the other copyright line.

> I expect the build process to be confused.

The only possible source of annoyance would be "make check_copyrights",
but this comes with an escape hatch (the copyright_exceptions file), so
there shouldn't be any problem.


        Stefan

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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Dmitry Gutov
On 3/13/18 3:03 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>> This can be counted as "trivial" enough not to require copyright
>>> paperwork, indeed.
>> But copyright notices are per-file, right?
>
> BTW: As soon as we make a single change to that file, it will deserve
> a "Copyright by Free Software Foundation".  What's discussed here,
> rather is whether we should also keep the other copyright line.

Right, but the only change I can see myself applying to it is adding (or
changing) the copyright line. :-)

>> I expect the build process to be confused.
>
> The only possible source of annoyance would be "make check_copyrights",
> but this comes with an escape hatch (the copyright_exceptions file), so
> there shouldn't be any problem.

So that's okay to do. Good to know, thanks.

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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Richard Stallman
In reply to this post by Dmitry Gutov
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Would you please email me mmm-noweb.el?  I would like to see
it before thinking about whether it can be an exception.

    and reportedly still used by some
    people.

Does this mean it is almost obsolete?

    They are not very essential (we could release one or both separately),
    but have them to be exceptions would make my life simpler.

I don't think we should make copyright exceptions for files that
aren't really important to include.

--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.


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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Dmitry Gutov
On 3/14/18 12:17 AM, Richard Stallman wrote:
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> Would you please email me mmm-noweb.el?  I would like to see
> it before thinking about whether it can be an exception.

Please see the attachment.

>      and reportedly still used by some
>      people.
>
> Does this mean it is almost obsolete?

I've had to deal with a couple of bug reports regarding mmm-noweb in
2015, and resolved both more or less satisfactorily. So I'm guessing
there are people who still use it, and it won't really be obsolete until
Noweb goes away. I think it's still used at some universities.

>      They are not very essential (we could release one or both separately),
>      but have them to be exceptions would make my life simpler.
>
> I don't think we should make copyright exceptions for files that
> aren't really important to include.
Releasing it separately is still an option, indeed.

mmm-noweb.el (13K) Download Attachment
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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Dmitry Gutov
On 3/14/18 12:47 AM, Dmitry Gutov wrote:

>> Would you please email me mmm-noweb.el?  I would like to see
>> it before thinking about whether it can be an exception.
>
> Please see the attachment.
>
>>      and reportedly still used by some
>>      people.
>>
>> Does this mean it is almost obsolete?
>
> I've had to deal with a couple of bug reports regarding mmm-noweb in
> 2015, and resolved both more or less satisfactorily. So I'm guessing
> there are people who still use it, and it won't really be obsolete until
> Noweb goes away. I think it's still used at some universities.

Another minor reason for it to stay: Noweb and mmm-noweb.el are
prominently mentioned in mmm-mode's README and the manual as an example
of Literate programming and MMM's support for it.

We'd probably have to find and document a different example, then.

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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Richard Stallman
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > Another minor reason for it to stay: Noweb and mmm-noweb.el are
  > prominently mentioned in mmm-mode's README and the manual as an example
  > of Literate programming and MMM's support for it.

  > We'd probably have to find and document a different example, then.

Based on this, and on looking at the source file itself, I agree that
we can accept that file into Emacs without a copyright assignment.

Emacs maintainers, please keep clear records of this, and
please write to [hidden email] about it, cc'ing me.

--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.


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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Eli Zaretskii
> From: Richard Stallman <[hidden email]>
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 10:05:01 -0400
> Cc: [hidden email], [hidden email]
>
> Emacs maintainers, please keep clear records of this, and
> please write to [hidden email] about it, cc'ing me.

Sorry, I don't understand what that means in practice, but maybe John
does.

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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Dmitry Gutov
In reply to this post by Richard Stallman
On 3/14/18 4:05 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:

> Based on this, and on looking at the source file itself, I agree that
> we can accept that file into Emacs without a copyright assignment.

Cool. Thank you, Richard.

> Emacs maintainers, please keep clear records of this, and
> please write to [hidden email] about it, cc'ing me.

I'm not sure what this entails too, but they'll have to be recorded
inside the elpa/copyright_exceptions file either way.

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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

Richard Stallman
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > Emacs maintainers, please keep clear records of this, and
  > > please write to [hidden email] about it, cc'ing me.

  > Sorry, I don't understand what that means in practice, but maybe John
  > does.

Please talk with [hidden email] about what to do.

--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.


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Re: Exceptions for certain files in ELPA?

John Wiegley-6
In reply to this post by Richard Stallman
>>>>> "RS" == Richard Stallman <[hidden email]> writes:

RS> Emacs maintainers, please keep clear records of this, and
RS> please write to [hidden email] about it, cc'ing me.

Do we have any such existing records? Or are these new records relating to
these exceptions?

--
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2